Bino's in 2.1 / Spell damage and Poison

I've been doing some number crunching and it's really got me wondering on the mecanics of Bino's since 2.1.

I found this dating back to 2013:

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Daniel_GGG wrote:

The magnitude of the new poison effect and the regeneration effect are both the same as the magnitude of the poison effect that was on the monster you killed.

This was at a time when poison couldn't stack and was damn near impossible to scale.

What this would mean is that simply looking at the regen gained would tell you the magnitude of Bino's AoE poison. I've seen my regen go higher than 30k... That seems to high.

I've noticed that even from a single application of poison via ED I get 30k+ regen.

Check out this extract video and slow it right down from 0:27 to 0:32. (Regen seen based on a lower damaging spec that's been updated)

My initial thought was stacking, however, watching the video, after the first mob dies there doesn't seem to be an exponantial growth patern to the spreading poison. IE: the first mob spreads to two mobs, who then apply their poison to a single mob, who therefore applies 2 stacks to the following 2 and so on... Meaning by the time the poison reaches the end of the pack, there are a whole ton of poison stacks.

This is also contradicted in that the regen doesn't shoot up. If it was stacking, I'd have hit 100K regen by the end of the pack.

The following average DoT for poison are worked out based upon two theories, the first that all gems affecting the skill that applies the poison directly affect the poison, and a second series that eliminates Spell Damage from the mix. (As the poison clarification post specifically explains how projectile damage on attacks double dips, but makes no mention of Spell Damage)

Numbers used:


With spell damage: avg 13824


Without spell damage: avg 6473


So how, if the regen isn't stacking, am I getting closer to 30k regen?

One theory that I can't seem to discredit is that it is bugging and granting a regen based on the total Chaos Degen at the time of death rather than poison alone. If you take ED + Cont + Poison(SD) = 15670 + 1094 + 13824 = 30588

This would need to be fixed but would lend credence to the idea that spell damage is affecting the poison.

The other alternative is that the regen is basing itself of 2 stacks of poison(SD) or 4 stacks of poison(NoSD)... This seems rather odd and again, regen value don't vary that wildly around the 30k mark.

Any confirmed insight into all this would be greatly appreciated.

Does Spell Damage affect poison if said poison was applied by a spell?
Is the magnitude of the new poison effect and the regenration effect still based on a single stack of poison on killed monster?

Thanks!

I may have come up with another explaination:

Poison is also procing of EDs DoT in some odd way.

Let's stick to the following premise: Regen is around 30k so the highest poison stack is at 30k

If I plug the Degen of ED into the poison formula without spell damage I get: 31139

So making up for different chaos resistance on monsters, the highest applied poison which Bino would use would fluctuate around 30k.

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SicNNasty wrote:

So making up for different chaos resistance on monsters, the highest applied poison which Bino would use would fluctuate around 30k.

I think Bino spreads regen at the default strength of the poison effect you placed on the monster, not the amount of damage it's actually doing to it, proliferation works the same way.

Yeah but the base damage upon which the poison is calculated, would that not be affected by the monsters resistance? If so then the regen would also fluctuate in a similar fashion.

Sure, that would be a factor, chaos res on monsters that have it is generally lower than elemental and it won't double-dip on regen so it won't be a huge factor though and would account for the fluctuation you're seeing. The video seems to reinforce the impression there's something unintended happening with ED/poison interaction.

We can clearly see Bino spreading ED along with poison and basing its regen on the debuff which is not what should be happening. You should probably report it, or do you want me to add it to the report about spell scaling of poison?

https://youtu.be/BBNGZg_XvhQ

Video made with only ED then only ED and Poison.

Without Poison:
Initial hit: 1090-1630
Degen: 4971

With Poison:
Initial hit: 1090-1630
Degen: 4971
Poison: 784 - 1173

Poison should work out to approx 20% increase on Degen but it sure looks like more.

Total poison if ED Degen is also applying poison:
784 - 1173 + 3579

Poison is effectively doubling ED's degen, this seems more consistent with actual gameplay.

Are you accounting for crit?

Yep, neither hit in the Hillock vid was a crit. And I'm only running with 8% crit chance